Sold and Silenced: The Investigation Behind the Shaniya Davis Case (Part 2)

In this second part of the Shaniya Davis case, I continue my conversation with retired Fayetteville PD homicide detective Tracey Bowman—and this is where things get even more real. We move beyond the investigation itself and into what cases like this actually do to the people working them. From courtroom moments and plea deals to the emotional weight that lingers long after the headlines fade, this episode pulls back the curtain in a way most people never get to see.

We also dive deep into the mental health side of law enforcement—the stuff that doesn’t get talked about enough. What happens after the case is “over”? How do officers cope with trauma, guilt, and the things they’ve seen? And what advice would seasoned detectives give to the next generation stepping into this line of work? This one isn’t just about the case—it’s about the lasting impact.

Episode Highlights

[00:42] – Breaking down the plea deal and why justice doesn’t always look the way people expect

[02:16] – The weight of “what if” and the personal guilt detectives carry

[04:10] – An emotional debriefing that exposed the human side of first responders

[06:13] – How PTSD and burnout quietly develop in law enforcement

[09:33] – Recognizing the signs of trauma and the long road to healing

[12:07] – The dangers of bottling things up and why that “mental box” eventually overflows

[19:00] – Advice for young officers: teamwork, humility, and talking things out

[21:52] – The art of interviewing and why ego can hurt an investigation

[27:46] – The lasting emotional impact of high-profile cases and media pressure

[29:14] – A powerful moment of vulnerability—why this case still hits hard today

[30:53] – The reality of PTSD: you don’t erase it—you learn to live with it

If there’s one thing to take from this conversation, it’s that what happens after the case matters just as much as what happens during it. Take care of yourself, take care of the people around you, and don’t be afraid to have the conversations most people avoid. And if you haven’t already, make sure you’re following the podcast and leave a review—it helps us keep these important discussions going.

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Contact us: mbridgeman@behindthethinblueline.org

Listener Advisory

This episode includes discussions of real-world violence, criminal activity, and emotionally intense subject matter. Listener discretion is advised.

Transcript

Mark Bridgeman: 0:00

Last time on behind the thin blue line in November of 2009 headlines in North Carolina, nationally and internationally, reported a story that no family wants to hear, no community wants to endure, and no law enforcement officer ever wants to work.

David L. White: 0:15

This podcast contains real world accounts and discussions related to law enforcement, military. Enforcement, military criminal investigations, public safety incidents and violent crime topics may include graphic descriptions, strong language, trauma, death and emotionally intense subject matter and may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener, discretion

Mark Bridgeman: 0:35

is advised. Did Ann Cornett testify against Mario McNeil at all? No, no. How was it that she only got 17

Tracey Bowman: 0:42

years, you know, I tell any detective, don't ever read anything about your case. It was just making me so mad. You know, people are like, Well, why did she wasn't she eligible for the death penalty? Why did she blah, blah, blah, what you know, and if it was up to me, yeah, she, she, you know, but she wasn't involved in the actual murder itself, right? So she couldn't have gotten the death penalty. And in reference to that, the time that she got was, you know, again, if it was up to me, but it's not that's, that's not my part of a trial, you know, all I do is I gather the evidence through the charges. You know, she they took a plea deal.

Mark Bridgeman: 1:22

Yeah, they took, I forgot what they actually called the plea arrangement. It's a certain basically, the evidence is all overwhelming that she was guilty, but she took a plea. Alfred. Alfred, plea. Yeah. So she pled out, and she had made a statement in court apologizing to the father of Shania. Were you there for that?

Tracey Bowman: 1:47

Yeah, I was there and and she said something to the effect that she was a good mother.

Mark Bridgeman: 2:01

yeah, yeah, yeah. Always saying good rapport judge Amos as well. But judge basically told her that, no, you're not a good mother. You could have prevented her her death. Yeah, there's

Tracey Bowman: 2:16

one thing I struggled with as the detective, and I'm sure there's other tactics that I'm going to say this too, is that, for a long time, I believe that if I could have gotten them to confess that Mario was there in the morning because, because he left, I think, according to the video of the cameras. He left around 537 he checked into the hotel at six, 611 at six o'clock. She went in and told Brenda that Shania was missing. They didn't call the police until six, almost seven o'clock, if there would be an honest and said, from get go, well, even Brenda, I didn't see him, but her brother said Mario Mano was there. We could have gotten a phone trace on accident circumstances, and maybe we could have saved her. You know, for the longest time I was blaming myself. I'm like, I wasn't a good enough detective to get her to confess. I wasn't a good enough detective to get confess. And then, you know, it finally, after getting some talking and out and talking to people, and I tell anybody this, talk things out. You know, you can't keep them locked in. No, can't. And that's, that's a whole, I could do a whole podcast on mental health. They had nothing to do with me. It had to do with them. No, Brenda's going to have to live with the fact that, if she would have told us when we arrived there, absolutely this has happened. Maybe, maybe she and I could have been saved. If Antoinette would have been honest and said, mono took her, yeah, maybe she could have been saved, you know. But as detectives, you know, as police first responders, we think we're going to save everybody. Well, absolutely we want to help people. Want to save them, and you do the

Mark Bridgeman: 4:10

best you can, yeah, with what you have. Yeah. After Shania was recovered, Shane sea, gross Lee County Emergency Management, he invited us up to a debriefing, okay? And I'm thinking, this is going to be X's and O's. This is going to be okay. This is how the search went. This is what we did in the grid search, and ultimately found her by doing, you know, sticking to our methodology. I was kind of, like, taking it back, because they're, you know, we go into the volunteer fire department up there, and they have about 30 people sitting in a circle in this room. It was an emotional debriefing, yeah, and I was not prepared for that. I was totally not prepared. And they started out of the. Left and went around clockwise, so we were the last ones. And you talk about seasoned, you know, emergency management, you know, first responders and stuff. We're all breaking down crying. It got to me, and I was like, you know, I was just wailing, you know, I was just crying. But it was good, because, you know, you got to think when, like law enforcement, like when work in Fayetteville, you know, we have a high operational tempo, especially in patrol, and you may go to a horrific scene or deal with a horrific incident, and once the scene is over with, you know, your Sergeant's telling you, go back 10, eight, go back in service. And we got calls for service pending. You have no time to decompress, you know. And, and I think that's it, you know. One thing I would encourage agencies to do is to provide resources to allow their officers decompress, you know? And I think that's where supervisors and sergeants and leaders need to watch their people and say, hey, look, you're not ready to go back in service. You need go home. Yeah, and it's okay to go home.

Tracey Bowman: 6:13

My last year on the permit, they had started having officers go to mandatory going to the psychologist at the time, it was a new thing. There was too many officers to do, and so they the way they did it, like the guy I had to talk to, well, he was just, had just gotten his degree to be a psychologist, and he wanted to go into sports medicine. So, you know, I really didn't want to open up to him, really. But what was interesting was I talked more about my at the time, I was a sergeant, I was talking about my people. I'm concerned about my people. I'm, you know, and we had to go to two sessions. And on the second session, again, I was talking about my people concerned. And he said, You know, I'm not really supposed to say this. But have you thought about when you retire becoming, you know, a psychologist. And I said, you know, actually, I have a sister. I don't want to have to get a master's. Yeah, really that. But I found another way. You know, I moved up to Michigan. I started working for Michigan common ground, frontline strong, which is paid for by the state. And what I do is sort of like 980 I am a call taker slash crisis specialist for the program. So if you call and you know, I'll talk to all first responders. And then we have computer program where we have different psychologists and counselors for first responders, be it, you know, if you're having marital problems, or they're having PTSD and all that, and now, really wish they would have it for the whole country, but,

Mark Bridgeman: 7:49

well, it's got to start someplace. Yeah, you know. And that's a great program. A lot of times, you know, when you're in the grind, you don't realize that you have PTS

Tracey Bowman: 7:59

yeah, that's, exactly what happened to me. I mean, I got after the shine case, and then really my PTSD. It's not really PTSD, it's cpsd, which is complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, when any first responder gets is just because of the, all the, all the stuff we see, you know, all the homicides we see, although, yeah, you know, people being run over by cars, just, you know. But when we're doing a case like China, you're not thinking with emotion. You know, the emotion is kind of like in the back burner. Your emotions are, no, you don't have time for that. Yeah, you're doing your job. You're doing your job. You do know. And it's not till later on that something will trigger it again, yeah? And that's what happened to me, is just it was more like burnout. It's just like I was kept on going. And a lot of times you don't realize you're changing personality wise from the trauma yourself. You know, the first people that see it are family members and friends, all right? And for me, my family, you know, lived up in Michigan at the time, and my friends were my co workers, and I was mad at everybody at police department. Oh yeah, I didn't. I wasn't gonna listen to anybody. I just my anger, you know, got so bad, and I went back to the road immediately. And it wasn't until I went back to the road where I started decompressing, finally starting to feel better. And then, you know, it wasn't till years later that I finally realized, oh, that's what's wrong with me. Yeah, that's what's wrong with me, yeah.

Mark Bridgeman: 9:33

And then when you finally hit the lifeboat of retirement, yeah, yes. It helped

Tracey Bowman: 9:41

me tremendously. It helped me leaving the area too, because I was driving by place and like, well, that's what that homicide happened. That's what that homicide happened. And so leaving the state and going to my happy place where, you know, where I live now, I see none two blocks from a lake and 10 mile walk. And. Trail. It was right at the end of my block, yeah? And it's just a nice, I'm, like, the youngest retired person, you know, well, technically, I retired, but you know, you're this oldest person there.

Mark Bridgeman: 10:09

I got, No, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just, it's just nice. Well, you found a happy place. I mean, that's good, good for you. Yeah? You know, it's kind of how, hopefully, the mental health evolves even more because I too might when I was on the emergency response Response Team, slash ERT at the time, our SWAT team, my guys, got into an officer involved shooting, and they had they shot, killed a guy. Okay, unfortunate. The mentality back then is they brought both of them in at the same time, psychologist, psychiatrist, I don't know what it was. It was a department sponsored guy, and he says, Hey, you guys, okay? And they looked at each other, yeah, we're okay. Okay, we're done. Call me if you need me. And that's really a disservice.

Tracey Bowman: 10:59

It is I remember talking to years ago, when I started in fraud, we had the magistrate's office downstairs, yeah, and I remember going in there to get some warrants out on somebody, some fraud stuff. And Chad Smith was in there doing his child porn stuff, yeah, at the time, I guess, investigating it, investigating it, yeah. But I guess the time you'd have to have the photos of, yes, the stuff. And I remember, you know, I was there and I saw the photos. And to this day, I just, I'm like, I I can't get those photos out of my I mean, it was just disgusting of these children, what they were doing. So later I asked, was it, how do you deal with that? Half of because I, because I was still having, you know, it's like, a month or so later, and I'm still having these images in my head, just, you know, not being able to sleep because I saw, I just glanced over and saw him, and I'm like, how do you deal with that? Yeah, and he told me, he goes, you just take it and you put it in the box in the back of your head, environmentalize it. And that's what I did. That's not what you should do, right? Because eventually that box gets too full.

Mark Bridgeman: 12:07

Well, administratively, I had challenges, because Youth Services was always short, yeah, okay, they had a high caseload. It's not that people didn't care. We were always short and resources with the police department, but my youth services detectives were getting burnt out, yeah, to the point they were breaking down.

Tracey Bowman: 12:28

Well, they were, I know there was a couple that they told me the reason they were medically retiring was because of the Shire case. Yeah, I was part of it. Yeah, I don't know you. Probably no matter how many people retired, but it seemed like more. There was a time where it seemed like there was quite a few, you know, juvenile detectives that had me medically Yeah.

Mark Bridgeman: 12:48

They had Yeah, PTSD, that's what they were medically retired from. And I don't blame them, because there's only so much you can take Yeah. You know, there's only so many times you can listen to a kid saying how somebody offended him, you know, physically or sexually,

Tracey Bowman: 13:03

yeah, and then back then, I know, you know, I've heard that they've got a new psychologist, or, I don't know what he is, but he's very good. But, you know, back then, I remember Chad tell me one time where they had got had to go to a psychologist, Oh, yeah. And basically, they didn't know how to deal with them. Because, I mean, if you've never had to deal with that, how do you know?

Mark Bridgeman: 13:30

Yeah, one of the next podcasts that we're going to do is we're going to be talking about PTSD, you know, between the military, law enforcement and that type of thing. The individual I have lined up, he's a retired law enforcement officer from Raleigh and former Marine, you know. So, you know, I think he would, you know, he would have a good insight on both sides of that spectrum. Because when I was an analyst out at Fort Bragg, you know, you know, we had anywhere between 20 to 25 suicides of service members a year. Yeah, I remember when

Tracey Bowman: 14:11

I were Tom aside, there was seeing there, there were quite a few military guys committing suicide, yeah.

Mark Bridgeman: 14:17

And, you know, it's just unfortunate that, and they have all these resources available. However, it still happens, yeah, you know. So, you know, the same thing with law enforcement. You know, the suicides are prevalent in our law

Tracey Bowman: 14:30

enforcement community, yeah, and even if they don't get to point to suicide, it's just there's so many that have. And I was talking to somebody once about this in reference to, you know, the PTSD, it seems like what I call like this, the SWAT, the who are guys that are, you know, you expect to for them to be stronger, are the ones that seem to be drinking more, yes, ruining their lives more is because they can't. Admit I need some help.

Mark Bridgeman: 15:02

Yes, one of my detectives, you know, he hurt his back on the job and wound up becoming addicted opioids, you know, but he wouldn't admit that he had a problem and wound up losing his job because he tested positive for opioids, you know. And, yeah, you know, we're like saying, hey, look, man, you got a problem. So say it, you know, you keep your job, we'll get you some help. But you know, sometimes, you know, pride gets in the way. Yeah, you know. And it's unfortunate. So working cases like this, you know, and you worked human trafficking as a sergeant, yeah, only

Tracey Bowman: 15:44

for for four months because I was on my way out. Yeah, you know it, and back then there wasn't, it's evolved quite a bit, you know, I'm, I'm just impressed that, you know, the department has come away, come a long way, because I remember, you know, back they would do the prostitution stings, and there would be, like, 1617 year old prostitutes arrested. And I'm like, Why? Why are we arresting these 1617, I know that at the time, they were adults, considered adults, I said, but that that just doesn't make sense to me.

Mark Bridgeman: 16:20

When I was in charge of as a sergeant the office of special information, that was the Intel slash gang unit, kind of like Swiss Army knife of investigations, we wound up identifying an individual that was running for escort services, and he was exploiting runaways, 1314, 15 year old girls. You know, that case took us three years. We got him on 38 counts of money laundering. We took him federally because he was taking credit cards, and that was our federal Nexus, you know, we wound up going with the IRS Cid, and I would never want an IRS criminal agent on my case, because they're ruthless. You know, the guy is still in prison to this day. He wound up getting 40 years. One of the good conservative judges up in Raleigh reviewed the case and, you know, took his plea initially. They were offering on plea nine years, and he refused it. He's nope, and it's okay, and they withdrew to plea and it's okay. You wound up pleading guilty, you know, before trial, like we were selected jury, and he played guilty. Wound up getting to 40 years. It was a good case, you know, it took three years. So we took it, you know, we couldn't talk about things. We had to lock down our office and what people didn't know. They made up. It was kind of interesting. Oh, yeah, I remember

Tracey Bowman: 17:53

that case. I remember hearing loss stuff. And, yeah,

Mark Bridgeman: 17:58

yeah, yeah. And it was, it was a challenge administratively, because we were under a 60 letter, a grand jury, a federal grand jury, the only one we could talk to about it is chief of police. So you have all these people that wanted to know about the case that you couldn't tell them, yeah, you know. You had to keep the integrity of the case where you know. And it got to the point people were giving me direct orders to tell them about the case, and I'm like, nope, not going to jail for you. So being a retiree now, you know, got years under your belt, like I do, these cases ultimately are going to happen again, you know, unfortunately, you know, or similar cases. Hopefully it'll never happen again, but it will, it will. So what kind of advice can you give a young officer or a young detective, you know, that's having to be a first responder to these scenes that they're going to see stuff they've never thought they would see in their life? Yeah, you know,

Tracey Bowman: 19:00

you know, I say that in reference to the case itself, you're not Superman. You know that you need help. Accept the help of the FBI, the SBI, whoever wants to help you, let them help you, especially to solve the case. Yes, that's all it's about. It's about solving the case and get just justice for the victims. That's what it's about. In reference to mental health, talk, talk it out. Find somebody to talk to. You know, a lot of times people don't want to take it home because they don't want their loved ones to know that you will that exist. You know, you don't want to take it home, you know, but if you can't take it home, you know, talk to a co worker. Find somebody to talk to.

Mark Bridgeman: 19:42

I totally agree, because when I went home at the end of a shift, no matter what happened, how it's worked, fine, good. Had a good night.

Tracey Bowman: 19:50

Came home, yeah, and that's it's understandable, but you need to talk it out, otherwise, you put it in that box and it stays there. Until it gets too full and it explodes, yeah, and everybody has different ways of coping. Like some people can cope from get go, some people have coping skills that are awesome, and they already know about talking to people and getting it out and, you know, being able to decompress. And some people like me, you know, think, especially because I was a female, I always had to try and be stronger, you know, couldn't show emotions. I remember someone telling me once, you know, there are no emotions in law enforcement, and that stuck with me. And so I was constantly, you know, trying not to show emotion at work. And it's okay to show emotion at work. It is, you know, you have to get it out if you want to do your job, well, you have to be emotionally Well, yes, in my job now, I'll tell people, you know, they're like, Well, I don't want to do this. Or I feel like, no. I'm like, listen, I said it's like listening to the stewardesses on the plane. You know when, when the oxygen mask falls down, they say, put it on yourself first, because you can't help the next person. If you don't help yourself first, that's a law enforcement if you don't help yourself first, mentally, you can't help anybody else. You know, you can't do your job well if you're not well, right? So you got to take care of yourself. You know, a lot of first responders, we don't put ourselves first. We're always putting somebody

Mark Bridgeman: 21:21

else first. Well, that's true story, absolutely, especially as a if you're a supervisor, you always, I've always put my people

Tracey Bowman: 21:28

before me. And so, yeah, you just, you got it. You got to think of yourself. You know, you got to think of yourself. Sometimes it's not being selfish, it's just being smart.

Mark Bridgeman: 21:37

Yeah, I totally agree. So what kind of investigative techniques that you would recommend to these young detectives these days, you know, this had be technology or,

Tracey Bowman: 21:52

you know, everybody has a speciality. You know, it's like grandma and I. Rambo is my favorite partner. I know he's probably, I irritated him, probably quite a bit, because he was, his memory was just awesome. I mean, he could, he could tell me, Well, if I asked him, Well, what was that? He goes, Well, you said, it'll be like a week ago. You told him this, and he said this, and you said that, and like you were just wasn't in your conversation. And you remember that, and then, you know, for me, I was more of the, I won't say vibes, but I could kind of tell if somebody was was bullshitting, or I could get people to confess to certain things by, I wouldn't say manipulation, but I would watch somebody and see where their weaknesses were, sure, and use that

Mark Bridgeman: 22:37

well, it's, it's really a to interview Somebody. It's an art form, you know, yeah. And it's some are better than others, yeah.

Tracey Bowman: 22:45

And then also that there'll be some people that like, like, for a female, it's harder to interview a male that hates females, you know. So like, if I was going into interview somebody that I knew had no respect at all for females, I would rather the male, my male co worker, interview that person. Sure you just you got to judge the person. Figure out, you know, who of your group would be a better Interview. Interview the person better. You know, don't let your ego get to you, right? I've seen that happen, where someone's ego was like, I'm just the best interviewer. You know, I can get this person to confess, and they're talking to someone or trying to interview someone that also had a big ego, and where maybe, if you had somebody was more quieter, was able to get around his ego and use his ego to get him it probably would have been

Mark Bridgeman: 23:41

better correct. And sometimes dealing with career criminals, they know how how to work the system to their advantage. They've been interviewed enough by law enforcement to know, you know. So you know, you have to take that into account too, you know, like, you know, I've never been a fan of I'm gonna put you in jail for the rest of your life, you know, scare the scare tactic? Yeah, that'd be more kind of first time offender, you know. But other than

Tracey Bowman: 24:09

that, yeah, it's, it's, it's knowing who you're interviewing, right? And then you gotta, you gotta figure out what type of personality he has, and figure out from your group, who do you think them the best?

Mark Bridgeman: 24:23

And I'm a firm believer to practice your interviewing, okay? And I mean, like, if you go to a restaurant, talk to the server, yeah, you know. And my family is always amazed that, you know, I'd start up a conversation, and before you know it, this person's telling me their life history, you know, they're telling me they've been married, they're divorced, they got kids, you know, I asked them about their tattoos and this and that. And what does that one mean, you know. And why do you you know? They said, You know, my kids are like Dad. Why do you do that? I said, well, one is practice, you know, to get to know people. Well, your first big interview shouldn't be the one to couch.

Tracey Bowman: 25:03

Yeah, that's so true in law enforcement, I firmly believe that working the road is one of the best things to do before we become a 10 degree. I remember a female that was one of my officers on the road, and I remember she wanted to come upstairs really quick, and I told her, I said, I'm not going to give you a recommendation. I said, you your reports are awesome. And I said, One day you're going to be an awesome detective. I said, but you need to be able to interview people on the road first. Well, one

Mark Bridgeman: 25:35

thing I always recommend it, I still do to this day, is, if you're working the road, you know, read people to write. You know, go to a shoplifting call, read them the rights. Get used to interviewing people. If you have time, that's that's the other thing. If you have time, then the other thing is, like, I've never been a fan of taking a guy right from patrol and sticking him in a high profile unit. Oh, yeah. You know, that's a recipe for failure, yeah, unless they have a certain skill set or previous life experience

Tracey Bowman: 26:08

from another agency or something

Mark Bridgeman: 26:09

like that, or the military or something like that. You know, we got plenty of military guys that have more experience than a little bit. Yeah. You know,

Tracey Bowman: 26:17

there's, yeah, there's just, I mean, because you don't want a road officer who had been on the road for a year or two coming straight to homicide, no, because they're not gonna know how to do search warrants, because it's really a different, different ball game, because you can get search warrants from a magistrate, but not, not when you're in homicide. You know, you got to go to, you know, superior court judge. You know search warrant Absolutely, to be able to articulate to him why you need that search warrant, you know, this search warrant. So they're just understanding how things are done. You know, there's just a lot of little things that need to be done, especially in homicide.

Mark Bridgeman: 26:57

Well, devil's in the details, yeah, you know, and you have to pay attention to detail when you're working a high profile or a very complex case, or, you know, the ultimate crime is homicide. You don't want to get that one wrong, yeah, you know, it does it happen. Sure it does. Yeah, you know. But I think with the way things are today in technology, and with the boost in DNA evidence, you know, it's been a plus for law enforcement both releasing people that have been wrongly convicted as well. You know, which I don't want to see anybody wrongly convicted. In closing, you know, you witnessed all kinds of stuff in your career. I'm quite sure Shania Davis is probably one of the in the top tier of the cases, you know,

Tracey Bowman: 27:46

just from the pressure and the national media attention it got, just the trial itself,

Mark Bridgeman: 27:53

yeah, and then he, you know, Marc McNeil, went through a number of appeals, you know, yeah, I didn't

Tracey Bowman: 27:58

really deal with that, that. That's all they did. Awesome, right? No, that not even just reminded me of the incident where, when I finally started realizing there was something wrong with me, I'd go back to the road and I was in the evidence room. Would have that they had the glass, you can see the outside, and I was, I was officer. I'd gone back to the road after I had my meltdown, basically, well, not meltdown, but I just was burnt out and, you know, angry. And I was in the evidence room, I was coming out, and I seen Robbie and Rita coming, they would come from outside and coming in, and I said the F word, and they saw me and but then they're like, what's wrong? What's wrong? Like, Oh, nothing, nothing. But I was about to have a panic attack. All they want to do was they were telling me about how they had gone to won the one of the appeal. I think it was the final pill. I think they said they had won the final appeal. And I was done. And then afterwards, I was like, What in the world happened to me? You know, I was having a panic attack just by seeing them. And then I realized, you know, that's what PTSD is, you start having a panic attack for no reason.

Mark Bridgeman: 29:14

That's not to mention that, yeah, I'm quite sure this is gonna stir up, this podcast is gonna stir up emotions with you. It already has, you know, we're both teared up, yeah,

Tracey Bowman: 29:24

but it's a lot better than it used to be. Yeah, it, you know, I couldn't talk about it, and like I said, this is the first time that I've publicly talked and I've talked to friends, sure, and people have asked me, and I've been fine, and I'll talk a little bit, here and there, here and there, but, you know, I've gotten to a point where I don't care if I cry, yeah, because it's a little five year old that died. Absolutely, she was an angel. She shouldn't have died. There is no reason neither one of her parents were the greatest. No, neither one of my greatest. She wasn't going to have the best life, but she deserved a life. You. Yeah, and that's, there's no reason that she's she shouldn't be here today.

Mark Bridgeman: 30:06

Yes, I totally agree with that. And you know, unfortunately, there's people out there that are evil. And you know, we, we've both had to deal with evil. And I hope you know this podcast helps people see what, and that's, that's why we, we call it behind the thin blue line, because, you know, people just know from the minute and 15 a minute, 30 seconds sound bite that they see on the news, and they think they know about law enforcement, yeah, well, they don't know shit, you know. They think they do, but, yeah, you know. But we need support, you know, we need help, and it's okay to ask for help, you know, you know. And that's still, you know, I still have PTSD for not only that case, but a lot of other things. You know, we see a lot of stuff.

Tracey Bowman: 30:53

I don't, I my personal kind of, I'm like, saying I'm not a psychologist. No, I just took some with the whole stuff my job. But you never get rid of PTSD. You gotta live with it. You just learn to live with it. That's it. You learn what works for you, yeah, to be able to live with it.

Mark Bridgeman: 31:09

And, you know, in people handle like we talked about earlier, people handle things differently. They process things differently. You know, one of my other officers wound up getting into an officer involved shooting. And this guy was a Vietnam vet, you know. And he's SF guy, you know. And he was like, breaking down, like crying and stuff, you know, I know. Now it's like, I know you've seen stuff before. He goes, Well, this, this first time it was an American and I'm like, oh, okay,

Tracey Bowman: 31:39

I got you. Yeah, yeah, no, but no, nobody. Cop wants to kill somebody. No, it's just it. I remember time I was major crimes before homicide, we separated, and it's major crimes. There was a robbery. The call came out and referenced the robbery at Burger King, and the two officers saw the suspects flying down Morganton road, going inbound, and what they didn't know? Well, they they pulled off pursuit because they were going, they already knew they were going too fast, down that they knew it narrowed down into one, one lane, yeah, and they, they knew it's too dangerous, so they call off the pursuit, but they step, kept going that way, just in case, you know, they could locate them, whatever. And I worked that case in the robbery aspect of it. But what the officers didn't know the vehicle they were in, they had, they're planning to the owner owed money on it the bank, and so they were gonna use it for the robbery. They had a big, huge thing of gasoline in the back of the car, and so they were going to burn it afterwards. Well, when the officers pulled out, pulled off the pursuit. They kept on going full speed. So right when Morgan road splits, they lost control. Can't telephone pole ended up, there's my most horrific scenes. I've seen the gasoline combustion burst into flames. The people, three people in the back seat, didn't have seat belts on. They went flying out the who was the back window in a ball of flying. And then, you know, the two officers then come up to the scene, you know, they don't know exactly what happened. They just think that the vehicle hit some civilians, you know, or maybe walk, because a lot of people walk their dogs at night. And I remember one of the guys talking about it. And, you know, it brought tears to his eyes, because he still remembers that, you know. So, I mean, the stuff we see affects everybody. No matter how strong you are, something is bound to affect you,

Mark Bridgeman: 33:54

Yep, yeah. And that's, that's one thing that when people are getting into law enforcement, you think you're gonna change the world, yeah, but you wound up being changed.

Tracey Bowman: 34:05

That's so true. I remember, you know, I want to be, I want to be combo. They don't have any horrific scenes in Colombo. No, you know. I mean, I don't regret it.

Mark Bridgeman: 34:18

But Well, Tracy, you know, I really thank you for sharing your experiences with us. You know, thank you for being here. You know, I can't express my appreciation enough. One thing that we do on the podcast is that every guest gets a personalized challenge coins, oh, and on the back, it has the four pillars, service, the sacrifice, strength and support, which you embody all four of those pillars. So thank you for your time and safe travels back to snowy Michigan. Thank you. You.

Buzz Burbank: 35:00

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